Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post details of your rolling stock developments - locomotive, carriages, DMUs, etc.
MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

My locomotives are all electrically connected with this Liquid Silver. I also improved TT points with it. This silver sticks very well and also gets hard, so it lasts a long time and conducts the current very well!

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

A few words to the supposed prototypes: If you want to build a model locomotive, you first make a design drawing. Then a hand sample is built to see if the design works at all. Then the items are machined and then the first locomotive is built with this items. That's the prototype. And nobody has it so far!
What KK Eishindo showed was not even a hand sample, that was a rough study. And Alan has so far only chassis studies. Closest to the prototype is clearly Siegfried!

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

Here are some pictures of how the current status of all steam locomotive builders is:

Hand sample by myself:
MALLARD hand sample
MALLARD hand sample
MALLARD_hand_sample.jpg (704.39 KiB) Viewed 3503 times
Rough study by KK Eishindo:
C62 rough study
C62 rough study
C62_rough_study.jpg (50.49 KiB) Viewed 3503 times
Chassis study / nearly but bad hand sample by TGauge.com:
A3 chassis study
A3 chassis study
A3_chassis_study.jpg (97.35 KiB) Viewed 3503 times
Nearly prototype by Siegfried:
01 nearly prototype
01 nearly prototype
01_nearly_prototype.jpg (404.04 KiB) Viewed 3503 times

jesse6669
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by jesse6669 »

Don't forget Joe M. He has a K-4 Pacific. And Alan R' s prototype is bigger/better than before, he exhibited at a show last fall: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2161460877430197

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

Joe builds like me only for himself! I also called my MALLARD only to show what is meant with a hand sample. I'm not on Facebook, so unfortunately I can not see your link. But I know that Alan showed exactly this A3 work in Birmingham, as shown on the picture in my post earlier. And that is NOT a prototype, this is at most a bad hand sample! If that were the prototype, then that means he wants to build this loco also exactly as bad in series. But who should buy that terrible vehicle?!
With all due respect to Alan's commitment, but I would never have presented this weird part at a trade show! In front of people with claim he has simply embarrassed himself with it!

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

It has been several years since KK Eishindo showed this terrible C62 vehicle for the amusement of the other model railway manufacturers in Nuremberg. Nothing has changed since then! Of those so no steam locomotive is expected! And I'm worried that Alan will also let the steam locomotive project seep through in the sand, for two reasons: first, such a locomotive can not be made at the Made-in-
China-low-cost-price, and secondly, there simply are not enough Customers for such a locomotive who also are ready to pay the high price.

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

In this respect, it is certainly not only interesting for Alan to find out who is willing to pay 1000 Euros and more for a steam locomotive in T Gauge.
Please call your price limits!

jesse6669
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Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by jesse6669 »

Most certainly the price of a RTR steam locomotive model may be high .. my estimate is it may very well get up into the multiple hundreds of Euros.. if they are truly mass produced i.e. China, they shouldn't be $1000 though. $200 US would be somewhere about right I would guess. But then there's a large up-front investment in tooling, etc. to make a run, likely around $15,000 at least. How many units need to sell to spread out that up-front cost..

On the other hand--consider the economics of brass locomotives from the 70's and 80's made by hand in limited quantity by artisans in Korea and Japan? They were expensive and yet modelers and collectors purchased them. So maybe an $500 or $1000 hand-made or small-batch-production steam locomotive might be feasible. "Pre order" is the rule of the day with manufacturers even in the popular scales these days so "Reserve today for delivery in 2020" and then produce to order may work as a business model.

Anyway--I think of the current batch of steam prototypes as "proof of concept" to show what is possible. Yes they have been done by yourself and others for several years now, but there are more and more others, and they are evolving to be better and better. Working valve gear, smoke... I'm optimistic that T steam will continue to develop, and my bet is that before very long there will be some "commercial" locomotive, whether it be a kit or RTR of some kind.

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

So as far as I'm concerned, if I could not even build steam locomotives, I would rather pay 1000 euros for a model from Germany, as 200 euros for such a China crap, which drives already new crappy and is broken after a short time!
If I approach the theme of T Gauge here in Germany in model railway shops, the dealers all wave down. They are not even ready to put a single one of these KK Eishindo ICE in the showcase for rehearsal because it's such a technical botch!

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

I do not want to take away your hope, but I'm not so optimistic because I know how difficult alone it is to assemble the locomotives, if all the parts already prefabricated. There are people with watchmaking skills needed and they cost much money. Or it is made by vending machines, but their purchase costs millions, which is then worthwhile only for mass production such as handled in the Asian watch industry. And if the locomotives are supposed to look really good, 3D prints will be not enough, then real shapes are needed, and they are also expensive, $ 15,000 are not enough, then we are moving into investments of $ 100,000 and more!
The cheapest option is still to have all parts manufactured by companies that already have the necessary machines and tools. That's what Siegfried does, but that costs almost near 1000 euros per locomotive!

MIHS85
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:37 pm

Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MIHS85 »

Interesting discussion and hats off to all of those here working on coming up with a working T-Gauge steam loco.

A couple of thoughts:

1) Uwe is probably right in saying that a fully detailed, reliable and commercially viable T gauge steam loco might be very expensive. Most special Z-scale loco models from European small-volume manufacturers go for somewhere in between $450-650, some for up to $1000. And whilst quite small compared to H0 an N, I would assume that the Z-scale market still is substantially larger than the one for T-gauge. If someone asked me how much I’d be willing spend on a T-gauge steam loco, I’d say that $200 would be my limit. My reasons for that, apart from a finite budget, are twofold: all the other current limitations of T-gauge (points etc.) and some lingering personal doubts about the long term viability and availability of T-gauge which presently keep me from investing too heavily into this scale.

2) The experts here will correct me if wrong, but I would imagine that fitting a fully functional valve gear onto a T-gauge loco might be one of the biggest complications and potential source of both cost and trouble. If so, I’d be perfectly happy with a compromise of getting a steam loco chassis with functioning big wheels, a 3D printed body shell and etched static gear valve imitations for in front of the wheels. Fully working gear valves could then be left as an option for the more advanced tinkerer. A bit like the kit solution mentioned by Jesse.

Just my five cents,

Chris

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

I also think that it makes sense first to offer a steam locomotive as a series locomotive like Joe's steam locomotive. So kept simple, also regarding the valve gear. A complete valve gear, as I build it on my locomotives, is a lot of work, I'm experiencing that again while building the Flying Scotsman! MÄRKLIN has also produced many, many years steam locomotives in Z with this simple valve gear like Joe's locomotive. With such a locomotive a price around the 300 euro is at most feasible. That could fed the market. Above all, it would be important that such a steam locomotive drives well, so has a much better transmission reduction than the trains offered by KK Eishindo today. My locomotives have 24: 1, this is a reduction that is more than three times higher than the ultra-high-speed-trains of KK Eishindo.

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

I do not want to do that every day! (-:
A3 valve gear mounting
A3 valve gear mounting
A3_ValveGear_Montage.jpg (153.18 KiB) Viewed 5616 times

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

A watch is huge against!
A3 vs watch
A3 vs watch
A3vsArmbanduhr.jpg (145.92 KiB) Viewed 5602 times

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

The Valve Gear is mounted!
Time for the wedding of the locomotive with the tender.
A3 wedding with the tender
A3 wedding with the tender
A3_HochzeitMitTender.jpg (755.45 KiB) Viewed 5585 times

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

Test Run:



Not good! The tender is driving too slowly.

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

Thanks for the positive voting, Matthew!

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

An improved wire lets hope that in fact there will soon be the first smoking steam locomotive in T Gauge!

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

The project smoking QTT steam
locomotive has failed!
If I take a wire with little resistor (5 Ohm), the generator smokes, but the locomotive does not drive, because the motors get hardly any power. If I take a wire with greater resistor (15 Ohm), the locomotive drives, but the generator smokes only slightly. And the little smoke does not penetrate through the very small holes in the chimney.
A3 Smoke Generator has failed
A3 Smoke Generator has failed
A3_Rauchgenerator_gescheitert.jpg (369.51 KiB) Viewed 5502 times

MMBUFBerlin
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Re: Smoking QTT/T Gauge steam locomotive

Post by MMBUFBerlin »

The Flying Scotsman is now finished!
Overall, the locomotive consists of 232 single parts, of which 182 made by myself (210 hours of work).
Steam Wheels, Magnet Rings, Spokes Slices and Rivets by TGauge.com (24 single parts)
Back Run Wheels & Axes and Tender Wheels & Axes by KK Eishindo (14 single parts)
Gears by Mikroantriebe.de (2 worms and 8 gears)
Motors Made in China (2 motors)
All other parts (also the Valve Gear, 42 single parts hand made!) made by myself (182 single parts)

The locomotive is NOT for sale!
I will donate this locomotive together with the MALLARD one day to the National Railway Museum in York.

Video Trailer:

https://youtu.be/v4Xne1OtPog

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