DCC Developments & Experimentation

The place for general discussions and requests for help on all matters relating to T gauge.
davidmatthewson
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:50 pm

Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

These are images of the 21M chassis before I murder it by trying to put a DCC decoder in it.. In a week or so we should be able to compare & contrast..
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2020-03-10 19_35_56-21m T chassis 014.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_35_56-21m T chassis 014.JPG ‎- Photos.png (502.73 KiB) Viewed 1363 times
2020-03-10 19_35_29-21m T chassis 021.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_35_29-21m T chassis 021.JPG ‎- Photos.png (571.45 KiB) Viewed 1363 times
2020-03-10 19_35_17-21m T chassis 020.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_35_17-21m T chassis 020.JPG ‎- Photos.png (725.68 KiB) Viewed 1363 times
2020-03-10 19_34_56-21m T chassis 018.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_34_56-21m T chassis 018.JPG ‎- Photos.png (548.56 KiB) Viewed 1363 times
2020-03-10 19_34_41-21m T chassis 017.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_34_41-21m T chassis 017.JPG ‎- Photos.png (558.72 KiB) Viewed 1363 times

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

It can most definitely be done. One of the Class 150 DMU chassis for Saltash:
P1020111_red.JPG
P1020111_red.JPG (61.99 KiB) Viewed 1361 times
P1020110_red.JPG
P1020110_red.JPG (57.19 KiB) Viewed 1361 times
And here's how.....
1) Remove the motor by levering up the gearbox top (after removing the bogie & springs). Gently lift the top up sufficient to be able to flip out the motor! Close the gearbox back down afterwards so you don't lose any of the gears, etc.
2) Remove the terminal block from the motor by gripping the block from either side with a pair of snips and gently squeeze!. The block will break off, leaving the two contacts connected to the end face of the motor.
3) Cut the contact strips short & tin.
4) With a very sharp blade, cut off the little body mount from immediately behind where the motor sits, together with an angle of the plastic at the back of the motor mount to allow room for the dcoder to sit at an angle....you can see where it sits in the bottom photo.
5) Shorten the decoder wires and solder the motor wires to the motor.
6) Refit the motor and position the decoder in place.
7) Finally solder the power leads to the busbars.

I did have a heart-stopping moment writing this...it looks as if the grey & orange wires connect to the busbars...which is wrong!. Having looked closely I spotted that its the red and black that go to the busbars - the grey & orange do a U-turn and go to the motor.

And if it looks as if the busbars have been cut....they were like that when I opened it up. It looks as if busbars off a longer chassis were cut and soldered together with an overlap so they would fit on a shorter unit. Very strange!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

Having spotted a few subtle differences in the mouldings, I've just realised that my chassis is a 20m chassis....as opposed to yours being a 21m chassis. So you have more room! About 0.05mm more by the looks of it! ;)
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

Be afraid, very afraid....Thanks Doug.

rail450
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by rail450 »

Hi Doug,

I have ordered the DCX65 without cables. please describe the wiring of the coloured cables , their functions and show the complete schematics.

Thanks.

Siegfried

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

This gives you all the information:
http://www.tran.at/Dokumentation/DCX65.pdf

And if anyone wants an English translation, PM me...
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

rail450
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by rail450 »

Hi Doug,

I need DCX65 fotos showing the used colors to solder my cables in same order as yours

BR,

Siegfried

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

Wires connected as indicated:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (57.35 KiB) Viewed 1288 times
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

spturner
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by spturner »

I just recently converted my GNER to DCC and to my surprise and amazement, it works! One thing that doesn't seem to work is the lights. Has anyone successfully wired the lights on one of these units? I tried soldering directly to the lightboard but that didn't do the job. I'd appreciate any guidance anyone might have on this.

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

How did you install the decoder chip into the unit? I'd love to compare notes so we can put together the definitive way of doing the install.

Regarding your question on the lights, I think the wiring depends on which version of the decoder you have. The image I posted above actually shows how the wiring to the lights differs.

I'd also like to find out more about how you're running DCC, etc. You're the only other forum member I know of who's actually fitted DCC....
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

spturner
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by spturner »

For installation of the DCX65, I mostly copied from the photos of your installation, as best I could. I cut the busbars, lifted out the motor, clipped off the majority of the plastic supporting the motor leads, and clipped those leads back as short as I dared. I cut pieces of black and red wire from the end of the DCX65 to connect between the front and back pick-ups where I'd cut the busbars and tucked them as far down along either side of the motor as I could make it go before soldering them in place. I then cut the controller wires very short (but probably not short enough) and soldered the grey and orange leads to the cut motor tabs. I then bent them back so I could solder the now very short (but again, probably not short enough!) black and red leads to the front pick-up leads. I threaded the white and yellow wires through to the front to try to connect up the lights, but that didn't work as I'd hoped.

I had to file the edges of the DCX65 board to remove the fiberglass flash so the body shell would fit back on. I also had to cut the front support post from the body shell because there was nowhere for it to go with all of those wires in the way! After all was said and done, the shell fit back on but won't quite lock all the way down because the wires are a bit too long and lift up on the front a bit. Still, it works and looks pretty good unless you're very close. I plan on (eventually) 3D printing an Amtrak GE Genesis body shell for it so I'll probably leave myself a bit of extra room to make it work. Given the refit, I may just give up on the lights.

I'm running all of this on an experimental oval right now, powered by a Digitrax Zephyr Express meant for my Z scale layout. With zero information out there on how to make this work, I used the UP6Z meant for Z scale DCC to cut the voltage down so as to not fry anything. It all seems to work pretty well, so I went ahead and ordered a couple of more DCX65s to convert my entire fleet (the other GNER and a GP8) for DCC running.

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

That sounds brill! Chipping the 16m power unit first off was very ambitious...so, well done!

And it looks as if you found the same thing as me....you have to be bold on cutting wires short - the shorter the better. I even had one wire come unsoldered at one end when I was soldering the opposite end!! I wasn't quick enough to stop the heat wicking to the other end!

Now you have a loco working, you'll have to try playing with the decoder settings. My test track loop is about 18 in by 12 in, and whilst playing with settings, I set the decoder so if I ran it at 100% throttle and then tripped it to idle, the loco took four complete circuits round the track to come to a stop! I have it set now so it takes about one and a half circuits....which seems to give a reasonable acceleration/deceleration curve! I've also capped the top speed...as flat out is totally unrealistic.

I use JMRI with MERG kits to power everything, and the software makes changing things very easy. I run track voltage at approx. 14v and the decoders seem to be quite happy, and the motors don't get hot even after long running
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

oliverwhorwood
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by oliverwhorwood »

Thanks to Doug for the modification method.
DCC decoder now installed into a 20m motorised chassis. This surgical procedure certainly isn't for the faint hearted, whilst trying to bend the yellow wire (rear light) back on itself it detached from its solder joint on the very small PCB - somehow manged to solder this back on.

The white and yellow wires for lights are ready to go tucked in at the front of the chassis where they will be appended with some SMD size resistors which will go the front and back of the EMU to the 0402 size LEDs (1mm x 0.5mm). Now onto connecting the track up to to the motor driver and arduino mega.

Empty chassis with motor body cut at an angle to fit the PCB:
20200509_142119.jpg
Motor with terminals shortened:
20200509_142200.jpg
Fitting the motor and PCB back into the chassis:
20200517_144033.jpg
Top view with everything back in place, motor wires cut and stripped ready to solder onto buss bars:
20200517_152632.jpg
All soldering and assembly completed:
20200517_165711.jpg
Final product with body shell back on:
20200517_170357.jpg

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

Well done Oliver!!

As you say, fitting a DCC chip is a challenge.....but despite first impressions, there does seem to be room to get one in....provided you're brave on the wiring lengths. I have to admit I was nervous about cutting them too short!

The 16mm chassis is the real challenge!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

Fantastic work - many thanks for the inspirational pics too!

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