DCC Developments & Experimentation

The place for general discussions and requests for help on all matters relating to T gauge.
davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

:D

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

Oh well.. I'm going to bite the bullet and order a DCX65 from Alan at Tgauge. Com and see what I can do.. Or not!

I'll report back in a few weeks.

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

David

Which chassis are you going to try and install into??
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

I like the use of the word 'Try'.. that's what worries me!

To start with I was going to use one of the transparent bogie units, which I use with Shapeways 3D prints over them. I know space is tight - very tight..

Fingers crossed - any tips BTW?

D.

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

A DCC decoder will fit with relative ease into the 23m power unit. There's a quite large gap between the back of the motor and the mount for the non-powered bogie.

Start off with a brave move!. The decoder pcb is made in multiples that are snapped into single units. This leaves a castellated edge on the pcb….you will need to gently file the small amount of excess off with a needle file to narrow the pcb down so it fits within the width of the bodyshell. This may sound brutal....but take a good look at what there is before starting....

The decoder will slide into the gap with a piece of insulation (I use paper) preventing any contact with the busbars. I soldered the motor wires to the spring contacts on the motor and the supply wires to the busbars.....and slipped a slightly more robust piece of insulation between the spring contacts and the busbars. Look at the righthand photo for the 23m cunit on tgauge.com ( https://www.tgauge.com/product/238/28/2 ... ed-chassis ) and you'll be able to tell how I did it. You have to make the wires as short as you dare...and I removed the light o/p wires as don't currently use lights.

I've also fitted DCC into a 20m unit....but a bit of carving is needed to make sufficient space for the decoder and wires! And I've succeeded fitting into a 16m unit.....but major surgery is needed to create a space for the decoder!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

Thanks for the encouraging words Doug - and the tip about filing it down. OK, last question - (for a bit!) - what's the best way to cut the bus bars to 'insert' the DCC wiring loom? Very small snips?

Thanks too for the pic ref - I see what you mean about the 'ledge' over the training bogie.

Sorry for all the Qs but I've always been happy to learn from chaps who actually 'done it'..

D.

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

You only need to cut the busbars in the 16m unit...and that's to allow the decoder board sit on top of the motor once you've removed the terminal block off the motor!!

Once you've connected the pcb to motor wires to the side of the motor spring contacts, you can break the busbar to motor contact connection by sliding in a small piece of insulation between the bars and the spring contacts.

Cutting the busbars does introduce two problems....the stability of the remainder of the bar..they're only held in place by very weak pins!...and you have extra wiring to do, which can very easily turn problem one into a nightmare! And this happened to me on one of my 125 units!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

Thanks Doug - all good to know..

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

Here's three shots of a decoder fitted to a 23m chassis:
P1020107_red.JPG
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P1020108_red.JPG
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P1020109_red.JPG
P1020109_red.JPG (79.46 KiB) Viewed 3722 times
Red and black wires are the power...and are soldered to the underside of the busbars. Orange and grey are the motor connections, soldered to the side of the spring contacts on the motor. Note the piece of card inserted between the contact springs and the busbars.
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

'A picture tells a thousand words''.. it all looks pretty tight - and very neat too.

Thanks.

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

These are images of the 21M chassis before I murder it by trying to put a DCC decoder in it.. In a week or so we should be able to compare & contrast..
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2020-03-10 19_35_29-21m T chassis 021.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_35_29-21m T chassis 021.JPG ‎- Photos.png (571.45 KiB) Viewed 3921 times
2020-03-10 19_35_17-21m T chassis 020.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_35_17-21m T chassis 020.JPG ‎- Photos.png (725.68 KiB) Viewed 3921 times
2020-03-10 19_34_56-21m T chassis 018.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_34_56-21m T chassis 018.JPG ‎- Photos.png (548.56 KiB) Viewed 3921 times
2020-03-10 19_34_41-21m T chassis 017.JPG ‎- Photos.png
2020-03-10 19_34_41-21m T chassis 017.JPG ‎- Photos.png (558.72 KiB) Viewed 3921 times

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

It can most definitely be done. One of the Class 150 DMU chassis for Saltash:
P1020111_red.JPG
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P1020110_red.JPG
P1020110_red.JPG (57.19 KiB) Viewed 3919 times
And here's how.....
1) Remove the motor by levering up the gearbox top (after removing the bogie & springs). Gently lift the top up sufficient to be able to flip out the motor! Close the gearbox back down afterwards so you don't lose any of the gears, etc.
2) Remove the terminal block from the motor by gripping the block from either side with a pair of snips and gently squeeze!. The block will break off, leaving the two contacts connected to the end face of the motor.
3) Cut the contact strips short & tin.
4) With a very sharp blade, cut off the little body mount from immediately behind where the motor sits, together with an angle of the plastic at the back of the motor mount to allow room for the dcoder to sit at an angle....you can see where it sits in the bottom photo.
5) Shorten the decoder wires and solder the motor wires to the motor.
6) Refit the motor and position the decoder in place.
7) Finally solder the power leads to the busbars.

I did have a heart-stopping moment writing this...it looks as if the grey & orange wires connect to the busbars...which is wrong!. Having looked closely I spotted that its the red and black that go to the busbars - the grey & orange do a U-turn and go to the motor.

And if it looks as if the busbars have been cut....they were like that when I opened it up. It looks as if busbars off a longer chassis were cut and soldered together with an overlap so they would fit on a shorter unit. Very strange!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

Having spotted a few subtle differences in the mouldings, I've just realised that my chassis is a 20m chassis....as opposed to yours being a 21m chassis. So you have more room! About 0.05mm more by the looks of it! ;)
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

davidmatthewson
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by davidmatthewson »

Be afraid, very afraid....Thanks Doug.

rail450
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by rail450 »

Hi Doug,

I have ordered the DCX65 without cables. please describe the wiring of the coloured cables , their functions and show the complete schematics.

Thanks.

Siegfried

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

This gives you all the information:
http://www.tran.at/Dokumentation/DCX65.pdf

And if anyone wants an English translation, PM me...
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

rail450
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by rail450 »

Hi Doug,

I need DCX65 fotos showing the used colors to solder my cables in same order as yours

BR,

Siegfried

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

Wires connected as indicated:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (57.35 KiB) Viewed 3888 times
Doug Kightley
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spturner
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by spturner »

I just recently converted my GNER to DCC and to my surprise and amazement, it works! One thing that doesn't seem to work is the lights. Has anyone successfully wired the lights on one of these units? I tried soldering directly to the lightboard but that didn't do the job. I'd appreciate any guidance anyone might have on this.

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dkightley
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Re: DCC Developments & Experimentation

Post by dkightley »

How did you install the decoder chip into the unit? I'd love to compare notes so we can put together the definitive way of doing the install.

Regarding your question on the lights, I think the wiring depends on which version of the decoder you have. The image I posted above actually shows how the wiring to the lights differs.

I'd also like to find out more about how you're running DCC, etc. You're the only other forum member I know of who's actually fitted DCC....
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk

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