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The three Ts. Lift the lid on the secrets of how you do things so others can have a go.....

Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby Reith01 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:08 pm

Hello all,

Well, try as I might to work with a level of precision there are times where tiny gaps can't be helped or it's too late to rebuild the thing. I know the first rule is don't have gaps but....

has anyone a formula for crack filling in this tiny scale to produce a durable result?

If it can be dispensed finely enough, superglue might work but I'm looking for something free-flowing that gets drawn into cracks with minimal effect on surrounding surfaces?

Many thanks for any suggestions.
bests,
Ivor
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby hank55 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:11 pm

Here in Czechia we use for this purpose acrylic based aqueous dispersion adhesives filled with fine-grated artistic chalks. The chalk powder is very fine and you can control a degree of the mixture fluidity by means of a chalk concentration in the paste in a very wide range. You can also purchase a complet set of chalks and play with colours ad nauseam :mrgreen:
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby mattinair » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:48 pm

Try the UV glue ......just try it.... it will blow your mind.....it comes out as a syrup...it can be applied with great delicacy and precision .....but when you hit it with the uv light within 3 to 5 seconds (or less *) it turns into hard plastic.....if the first bead doesn't fill the gap; harden it and add another...you can actually build up 3D structures with it. I made the rear wheel on my forklift this way.....it is also great for reinforcing delicate paper structures....I did this with the fork assembly on the front of the forklift....I painted it on with a small brush; hit the light; and like that I had a tiny plastic-paper part many times stronger than the original.....* I just discovered, while trying to set up a tiny post, that a brief blast of uv light would harden the glue enough to hold the post but leave it still soft enough to make final adjustments... when I got it just right I gave it another blast of uv light to finish hardening........And, of course, it works on macro stuff too :)
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby dkightley » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:17 pm

Surprisingly, I've managed to fill in bits in a couple of my PLA buildings with nothing more hi-tech than plaster of paris. It hardens in 10 minutes...and can be smoothed down so easily! And no special equipment needed.....not even a broken arm and a bandage!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby Reith01 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Thanks for all these tips!

Right. So I'll put together some pieces with gaps (not that I have to try too hard at that) then give them a go.

hank55, it took a few moments for the penny to drop about "acrylic based aqueous dispersion adhesives" but I wondered if water-based acrylic sealant would do as a start. I didn't want to buy half a litre as I've nothing to varnish or seal at the moment. I can crush some pastel. Anyway, I have small pots of Humbrol "varnish" so I'll see what happens with that.

UV Glue. How did I miss this??? It seems to be the stuff people use to stick protectors on their smartphones, the LOCA stuff. Have yet to find a supplier that includes a plunger with the syringe - it's just going to take time going through the ebay listings. The attraction is that this could be used for tiny casts (if one takes care to avoid sticking the thing to the mould. (wax moulds might work because a cast can be melted out.) I have some hi-bright UV leds which may just be enough with tiny gap. I'll probably order on Boxing Day.

Doug, the plaster sounds fine but with Bristol board it may distort the card. Still, I can try it out. I had a go with a slurry of Das Pronto on the base of a low wall but that doesn't adhere to the card without a pre-coat of PVA. Where it'll surely come in use is doing the bases, paving and steps for the town modules and joining the road sections.

All good then and thanks again.

Merry Christmas, all!

Ivor.
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby mattinair » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:06 am

Laser Bond comes with dispenser & UV light all in one unit ...I saw it on tv :) ...I've noticed several competitors with this same set up of dispenser & light in one unit...one I haven't tried yet but I've also seen on tv is 5 Second Glue. their dispenser is refillable they also offer several different formulations...The Laser Bond seemed a little pricey but on a use per dollar basis it's proven to be quite reasonable ....and price aside it works so much easier and with so much more versitility than superglue I'm completely hooked on it especially for modeling. :D
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby hank55 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:06 pm

Reith01 wrote:hank55, it took a few moments for the penny to drop about "acrylic based aqueous dispersion adhesives" but I wondered if water-based acrylic sealant would do as a start. I didn't want to buy half a litre as I've nothing to varnish or seal at the moment. I can crush some pastel. Anyway, I have small pots of Humbrol "varnish" so I'll see what happens with that.


I am afraid the language I am using is miles from the Queen's English :oops: so I would like to avoid any misunderstanding. Acrylic adhesives are widely available on the market here, even in quite small bottles (0.1 litre = approx. 1/4 pint). There are various sorts, not only pure acrylic but probably more often some mixtures with PVA (=polyvinylacetate), starch and maybe others. The trade marks are probably specific for this country, e.g. Hercules, Dispercoll, Duvilax... The community of Czech paper modellers uses above all Hercules. I also know what you call acrylic sealants (certain products available here are called "putties" but that reminds old glaziers' craft too much so I do not like using the word in this context...) but this is more or less better for plastic kit modelling and to be honest, I have never tried to combine that stuff with paper/cardboard.

There is also a difference between artistic chalks and pastels. Pastels are often rather oily while what I call chalks is always dry. The drier the filler powder is the better.
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby Reith01 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:13 pm

Hank,

Thanks for that. I'm searching under the descriptions and brands - will continue. The acrylic sealant/varnish we have in the UK, a coat diluted between 1 acrylic to 3 to 6 water is purely to seal the wood in preparation for finishing. This doesn't sound like the same thing, hence more research. I'll let you know how I get on with modeller's acrylic varnish. It isn't the best for stiffening - I found that out....but we'll see. I have artists pastels which are just pigment bound with gum. (I tried my hand at pastel work long ago so sorted out the different makes, prices and so on). I also have chalk, so anyway - research continues. Frankly if the gap is anything more than tiny I'll do the work again or stage-manage some kind of remedy!

cheers,
Ivor
and....Merry Christmas
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby Reith01 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:23 pm

mattinair wrote:Laser Bond comes with dispenser & UV light all in one unit ...I saw it on tv :) ...I've noticed several competitors with this same set up of dispenser & light in one unit...one I haven't tried yet but I've also seen on tv is 5 Second Glue. their dispenser is refillable they also offer several different formulations...The Laser Bond seemed a little pricey but on a use per dollar basis it's proven to be quite reasonable ....and price aside it works so much easier and with so much more versitility than superglue I'm completely hooked on it especially for modeling. :D


I'm having trouble finding a supplier in the UK on the web. Google doesn't help, taking no notice of quotes around Laser Bond.
I'm definitely interested as this seems to hold other possibilities like casting (in a wax mould so the mould can be melted off).

Just a couple more hours trying to install the lighting in a T gauge petrol station then down tools until Sunday!

Cheers,
Merry Christmas,
Ivor.

Edit: Ok, google forgiven. Looks like it comes under Lazer Bond.
At worst I'd have to get it from Amazon.com.
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Re: Card/paper model crack/seam filling.

Postby NoelDollimore » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:13 pm

Hello Ivor.
I've been searching out these UV glues as I'm allways looking for alternatives for use in my diverse modelling (from T gauge railways right through to 1/14 scale radio controlled trucks),
I found this, I'm going to give it a try after the holiday, see what you think.
http://www.decolumdirect.co.uk/bondic-starter-kit/
All the best for Christmas to you and all on the forum, Noel.
Knowledge is of no value unless it is shared, if you can remember it !!
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