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Flywheels

Postby Switcher102 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:35 am

Hello folks, I'm new here and I want to buy my first T gauge locomotive but, trouble is, I am a great believer in flywheels. I believe they are the key to good running (yes, even for T gauge, in fact especially for T gauge) and every model motor should have one, and as big as possible, therefore I am wondering if it is possible to add flywheels to T gauge.

I am looking into buying the Garden Motor Car and I notice it has the Shicoh motor and gearbox which I believe provides the best smooth control from stop-to-go and go-to-stop. I also notice you can get the Shicoh motor separate ….

http://www.tgauge.com/product/194/7/4-5vdc-shicoh-motor

… and a power transmission bogie separate ….

http://www.tgauge.com/product/4/7/power ... sion-bogie

…. but I cannot see how the two fit together. The motor would have to sit transversly in order to connect with the gears in the bogie. The motor sits longitudinally so how is the power transferred through 90 degrees to the wheels?

If I could see that, I could then see if it would be possible to add a flywheel by extending the shaft (sleeving a brass tube over it) and making a flywheel to fit and hopefully fixing the other side into a bearing to keep it steady. If there's no room for much diameter perhaps there's room for depth (which can also add momentum). What do you think folks? Bonkers?
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Re: Flywheels

Postby dkightley » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:03 pm

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Your post makes me think that you have so far not had a close look at a T gauge power unit, as having done so you would clearly see that you've missed out a most important part of the drive chain - the reduction gearbox.

The motor you have looked at in your link does not have a reduction gearbox,,,something it does need to be able to drive the wheels at scale speed. The gearbox is an integral part of the power unit chassis and is consequently not available as a separate unit....and the first gear in the drive is a crown wheel that is driven from the motor pinion, which is how the drive is turned through 90 degrees.

Also note that the garden motor car is actually made up of a shell fitted over the 19m power chassis. Take a look at the photos for a closer look at the detail: http://www.tgauge.com/product/193/2/19-metre-motorised-chassis

Personally, I don't thing it possible to incorporate a flywheel into the small confines of the current power unit. With smaller high precision electromechanical developments that are around, I'm sure that in theory it may be possible to incorporate the mass of a flywheel, but not using currently available motors and miniature gear drives, etc.

I could be wrong....but I strongly recommend you purchase a power unit so you can see for yourself how tight room is!
Doug Kightley
Webmaster here and volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
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Re: Flywheels

Postby Kupzinger » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:03 pm

Hi,

the rotation energy you can store in a (cylindric) flyweel is proportional to its wight as far as I remember. And the wight is determined by the square of the cylinder's diameter. So, either you need a super-heavy material or a super-fast motor. The diameter is unfortunately very restricted...

This is why my personal guess is that flyweels do not make much sense in T. What could be more interesting is DCC (ok, again, a space problem) in combination with supercaps. I once made an estimate for my Class 37 model on a 16m chassis and found, that components for a DCC receiver could actually be spread in the inside of the machine. However, I did not test it in reality :)

Currently, I am dreaming about fixed-coupled "DMUs" with one motorized and one non-motorized chassis with a custom 6V DCC system and supercaps. Ask me in a year how far I took this idea....

Cheers
Kupzinger
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Re: Flywheels

Postby Switcher102 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:08 am

dkightley wrote:Your post makes me think that you have so far not had a close look at a T gauge power unit, as having done so you would clearly see that you've missed out a most important part of the drive chain - the reduction gearbox.


Well, I hadn't missed it (and I had seen the motorised chassis you linked, but not in the 'flesh'), I was hoping to see how it works but I am guessing that's too much to ask. That will be a closed system I suppose. I will probably just buy it and see how I go from there. I think the way for me to go is to forget about the gear box and consentrate on the connection area between gearbox and motor. It might be possible to make room there. Would only need about 1mm of the shaft available perhaps for the centre of the flywheel, it's the circumference of the flywheel that does the work and that could be wider. Anyway, thanks for your help Doug.

Kupzinger - the heaviest material available to us is Tungsten but I am having trouble sourcing that at the moment, and cutting it on a lathe is not something I know anything about. Using brass at the moment, don't know how or even if you could make a stable flywheel out of lead. Aey, DCCfying T gauge would really be something, and you could have a keep alive, which I presume is what you mean by a supercap, a super capacitor? I'd be interested to see how you get on with that.

I don't like relying totally on electronic moment because electronics can be switched off. I prefer to always have mechanical moment and use electronic momentum as an aid.

I wonder, can you keep a secret? I am actually an O gauge modeller ….. sssssh! Keep it down! They do let us O gauge-ers out occasionally to explore the smaller scales as long as we don't boast too much afterwards how clever we were at seeing and handling them. I'll post another thread about what I'm up to with T gauge but it's basically that within O gauge T gauge represents 5 inch gauge.

Rich
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Re: Flywheels

Postby Kupzinger » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:24 pm

:)

We will see where my DCC dreams go - I have much more time to think about T on the way to work than fiddle around with it at home :)

Cheers
Kupzinger
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Re: Flywheels

Postby Switcher102 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:36 pm

I presume you know about MERG http://www.merg.org.uk/ Their forum is very helpful, in fact I find there's too much information. It overwhelms me, but that's a lot better than underwhelming.
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Re: Flywheels

Postby Kupzinger » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:04 pm

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the link. No, I am not one of their two Austrian members :) Will have a look!

Cheers
Kupzinger
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